The Human Intimacy Podcast

You Can Be Right or You Can Be Married: Rebuilding Communication, Trust, and Love with Brett Williams (Episode #45)

You Can Be Right or You Can Be Married:
Rebuilding Communication, Trust, and Love with Brett Williams
In this episode of The Human Intimacy Podcast, Dr. Kevin Skinner welcomes his long-time friend and fellow therapist, Brett Williams, author of You Can Be Right or You Can Be Married. With over 35 years of experience as a marriage and family therapist, Brett dives into the complexities of couple communication and conflict resolution.
He introduces the “Four C’s” of communication—Chit Chat, Communicating, Correcting, and Combating—and explains how couples can move away from destructive patterns of blame and escalation.  
Brett emphasizes the importance of creating a safe space for confession—vulnerably sharing emotions without defensiveness—and highlights that love is the free gift of attention. Together, Dr. Skinner and Brett offer actionable strategies for effective communication, understanding your partner’s needs, and building love-based solutions for deeper intimacy and connection.  
The episode concludes with an exciting announcement about the first annual Human Intimacy Conference (March 14th and 15th, 2025), where Brett will explore whether loving again after betrayal is possible and provide tools for trust and communication
You Can Be Right or You Can Be Married: Rebuilding Communication, Trust, and Love with Brett Williams
Resources Mentioned:  
1. Brett Williams’ Book:  
   - You Can Be Right or You Can Be Married: Love-Based Solutions for Couples.  
2. Concepts and Techniques:  
   - The Four C’s of Communication (Chit Chat, Communicating, Correcting, Combating).  
   - The Attention Reception Test (visual, auditory, kinesthetic preferences).  
   - Love-Based Solutions for rebuilding connection and trust.  
   - Physiological regulation during conflict (monitor heart rate and nervous system).  
3. Related Research and Experts:  
   - Dr. John Gottman: Impact of escalated heart rates on communication.  
   - Dr. Stephen Porges: Polyvagal Theory and regulating the nervous system.  
   - Gary Chapman: The Five Love Languages.  
4. Event Mentioned:  
   - First Annual Human Intimacy Conference (March 14-15, 2025).  
     - Featuring Brett Williams and 15 other clinicians specializing in overcoming betrayal trauma, addictive behaviors, and rebuilding relationships. More information to come!

The Affirming and Healing Balm of Acknowledgement (Episode #44)

The Affirming and Healing Balm of Acknowledgement  
In this episode of “The Human Intimacy Podcast”, Dr. Kevin Skinner welcomes Kosta Petrogeorge, a long-time colleague and friend, to explore the powerful concept of acknowledgement in relationships. The conversation dives into how deeply seeing and acknowledging loved ones—through intentional words, actions, and moments—can heal emotional wounds, strengthen intimacy, and foster deeper connections.  
Kosta shares poignant examples, including a scene from the film Dances with Wolves, where heartfelt acknowledgment powerfully affirms relationships. They discuss how couples navigating betrayal can intentionally reclaim spaces and relationships tarnished by infidelity or trauma, offering creative and therapeutic strategies. This includes a touching exercise to replace avoidance with an intentional ritual that fosters healing and repair.  
Through real-life stories, Kosta and Dr. Skinner demonstrate that true acknowledgment transcends mere words—it is an intentional act of claiming and honoring those we love. They also explore the impact of missed acknowledgment, sharing insights on how unresolved moments from the past can be addressed and healed.  
The episode concludes with everyday applications for acknowledgment, such as introducing loved ones with intention, greeting a spouse warmly, and practicing "wind in his hair" moments to affirm the value of those closest to us. Dr. Skinner leaves listeners with an inspiring reminder: We all have the choice to deepen our relationships through genuine acknowledgment.  

Exploring the Silent Struggle: Betrayed Men and Their Healing Journey with Dr. Jesse Piles (Episode #43)

Exploring the Silent Struggle: Betrayed Men and Their Healing Journey with Dr. Jesse Piles
  In this compelling episode of the Human Intimacy Podcast, Dr. Kevin Skinner sits down with Dr. Jesse Piles, a PhD in humanities and a dedicated researcher, to discuss the often-overlooked experiences of betrayed men. Drawing from years of research and hundreds of conversations with betrayed husbands, Dr. Piles sheds light on the unique emotional and psychological impacts of infidelity on men.
Topics include differences in how men and women process betrayal, societal perceptions of male infidelity recovery, and the significant role of sexual disgust in men's healing journeys.
Dr. Piles emphasizes the need for open-minded listening and tailored support for betrayed men, challenging the narrative that men "just get over it." With insights from decades of scientific research, he highlights the unique barriers men face in seeking help and recovering from betrayal. This episode is a call to action to broaden the conversation around betrayal and develop resources that address men's specific experiences.
Key Takeaways
1. Unique Male Experiences of Betrayal    - Men experience betrayal differently than women, with key emotions including sexual disgust and questions about meaning and legacy.     - Betrayed men often focus on two haunting questions: “What was my wife thinking?” and “What did she gain?”  
2. Barriers to Seeking Help     - Men tend to isolate in difficulty and avoid discussing their emotions.     - Societal narratives and existing recovery models are often ill-suited to their experiences.  
3. Differences in Infidelity Patterns     - Men and women betray at similar rates, but their motivations and emotional impacts differ.     - Women’s infidelity often involves high neuroticism, while men’s is linked to low agreeableness and conscientiousness.
4. Support Needs for Betrayed Men     - Listening with an open mind and without preconceived models is critical.     - Betrayed men prioritize family stability and often defer addressing their emotions to focus on protecting their families.
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Resources Discussed
1. Dr. Jesse Piles’ Research     - Decades of scientific literature on infidelity, highlighting the disparity between research findings and public narratives.     - Analysis of men’s experiences through lenses of cognitive awareness, sexual psychology, and societal norms.
2. Key Articles     - "Why Women Cheat" (2023/2024): Highlights the complexity of female infidelity from a biological perspective.     - Studies on Big Five Personality Traits: Examines the link between infidelity and personality traits like neuroticism and conscientiousness.  
3. Support for Betrayed Men     - Research for Betrayed Men: A comprehensive resource offering blogs, articles, individual, and group support tailored to betrayed men.       - Website: [researchforbetrayedmen.com](http://researchforbetrayedmen.com)  
Final Message  
Dr. Jesse Piles encourages betrayed men to seek support and emphasizes that no two experiences are the same. Through open dialogue and research-backed insights, he aims to give betrayed men the voice and resources they need for healing. 
For more information and support, visit [researchforbetrayedmen.com](http://researchforbetrayedmen.com).  

Understanding Anxiety: Tools for Managing Stress and Building Connection (Episode #42)

Understanding Anxiety:
Tools for Managing Stress and Building Connection
In this episode of the Human Intimacy Podcast, Dr. Kevin Skinner and MaryAnn Michaelis dive into one of the most prevalent mental health challenges of our time—anxiety. As the holidays approach, many feel the weight of heightened emotions, family interactions, and personal stress. Dr. Skinner and MaryAnn discuss the biology of anxiety, its relational impacts, and practical tools to manage it effectively. From understanding the role of the vagus nerve to employing techniques like breathing exercises, bilateral stimulation, and mental rehearsal, this episode equips listeners with actionable strategies to navigate anxiety and strengthen their connections during the holiday season and beyond.
Resources Mentioned in the Episode:  
1. Books and Theories     - The Polyvagal Theory by Dr. Stephen Porges     - Hold Me Tight: Seven Conversations for a Lifetime of Love by Dr. Sue Johnson     - The Body Keeps the Score by Dr. Bessel van der Kolk     - Mindfulness for Beginners by Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn  
2. Techniques and Exercises     - Box Breathing: A simple technique to calm the nervous system.     - The Basic Exercise: A vagus nerve-stimulating exercise explained in the episode.     - Bilateral Stimulation: Gentle tapping or walking to help reset the nervous system.     - Vagus Nerve Massage: Techniques for self-soothing and relaxation.  
3. Digital Tools and Protocols     - The Safe and Sound Protocol (SSP) by Dr. Stephen Porges: A tool designed to regulate the nervous system.     - Mental Rehearsal and Visualization: Tools for preparing for anxiety-inducing scenarios.  
4. Additional Support     - Human Intimacy Podcast Archive: Explore related episodes on emotional regulation and relational healing.     - Contact: Email your questions to questions@humanintimacy.com for tailored advice or resources.  
5. Practical Tips for the Holidays:     - Use visualization to prepare for potentially stressful family interactions.     - Take short breaks during gatherings to reset and regulate anxiety.     - Limit exposure to sensationalized media that might increase stress.  
This episode provides a compassionate and practical guide to understanding anxiety, offering tools to help listeners find safety within themselves and in their relationships.

Making Love and Other Non-Sexual Activities: Creating Connection in Every Relationship (Episode #41)

Making Love and Other Non-Sexual Activities:
Creating Connection in Every Relationship
In episode 41 of the Human Intimacy Podcast, Dr. Kevin Skinner and MaryAnn Michaelis redefine the concept of "making love," shifting it from a purely sexual context to an intentional act of creating connection and care in all relationships. Through personal stories, client experiences, and research insights, they explore how love is a choice and an action, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, psychological safety, and intentionality.  
The discussion delves into the challenges of showing love after betrayal or during conflict and highlights practical tools for fostering connection, such as attuned communication, externalizing problems, and practicing presence. They also discuss the barriers that prevent love, including fear, resentment, and lack of safety, while encouraging listeners to reflect on their ability to make love by creating a nurturing environment.  
Key takeaways include the importance of tone and body language in communication, the role of self-awareness in showing up authentically, and the need for self-care and external support during difficult times. The episode concludes with an inspiring invitation to “go make love” in all its forms, from small acts of kindness to moments of deep connection.
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Resources Discussed:
1. Barbara Fredrickson’s Book, Love 2.0  
   - Explores the concept of love as a momentary connection rather than a fixed state, emphasizing micro-moments of positivity and connection.
2. Dan Siegel’s Work on Feeling “Felt” 
   - Focuses on how attuned communication helps individuals feel deeply understood and validated in relationships.
3. Still Face Experiment by Dr. Edward Tronick  
   - A study highlighting the impact of nonverbal communication and emotional attunement on connection and attachment.
 
4. The Intimacy Pyramid (Dr. Skinner’s Version)  
   - A framework for understanding different levels of intimacy, starting with psychological safety and moving through emotional, verbal, intellectual, and sexual connection.
5. Brett Williams Book, You Can Be Right or You Can Be Married 
   - Encourages couples to focus on collaboration rather than defensiveness, offering practical advice for fostering connection.
6. Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach  
   - Encourages individuals to reflect on how their demeanor and actions impact relationships, posing the question, “Do you make it easy for people to love you?”
7. Eye Contact Meditation  
   - A couples exercise focusing on deep, intentional eye contact to foster intimacy and connection.
8. Support from Trusted Relationships  
   - The importance of turning to trusted friends, family, or therapists to process emotions and find words before engaging in difficult conversations with a partner.
By integrating these insights and tools into your daily life, you listeners can learn to make love a choice and a practice, fostering stronger, more authentic relationships.

Preparing for the Holidays: Connection, Self-Care, and Healthy Boundaries (Podcast #40)

Preparing for the Holidays:
Connection, Self-Care, and Healthy Boundaries
In episode 40 of the Human Intimacy Podcast, Dr. Kevin Skinner and MaryAnn Michaelis explore how to prepare mentally and emotionally for the holiday season. They discuss the importance of connecting with loved ones, setting healthy boundaries, and taking steps to manage common holiday stressors. The hosts offer practical strategies for navigating challenging family dynamics, such as visualizing interactions and setting personal boundaries. They also emphasize the importance of nutrition and routine in maintaining mental and physical health during the holidays, sharing insights on how unhealthy eating habits can exacerbate stress and anxiety.
Reflecting on the significance of those who have positively impacted our lives, Dr. Skinner and MaryAnn underscore the value of honoring loved ones, creating meaningful holiday rituals, and cherishing connections. They encourage listeners to embrace the holidays as a time for intentional connection, compassion, and even reconciliation, emphasizing that forgiveness and small acts of kindness can bring warmth and joy to both giver and receiver.
 
 

Bridging the Divide: How Seeing Each Other Can Heal Relationships (Episode #39)

Bridging the Divide:
How Seeing Each Other Can Heal Relationships
n this episode of the Human Intimacy Podcast, Dr. Kevin Skinner and MaryAnn Michaelis dive into the timely topic of conflict, both on the political stage and in personal relationships. As election season stirs emotions and divides deepen, they explore how viewing others with empathy, even in times of disagreement, can open doors to meaningful connection. Reflecting on the human tendency to see others as "they" rather than recognizing them as individuals with unique stories and struggles, Dr. Skinner shares insights on the importance of civil discourse and the healing power of truly seeing each other. With examples from their lives and professional experiences, they discuss tools for navigating conflict in a way that fosters understanding, compassion, and ultimately intimacy. This episode encourages listeners to embrace the multifaceted nature of people around them, whether at home, in politics, or in society at large.

Unlearning: Breaking Patterns That Prevent Us from Connection and Intimacy (Episode #38)

Unlearning: Breaking Patterns
That Prevent Us from Connection and Intimacy
Dr. Kevin Skinner and MaryAnn Michaelis discuss breaking subconscious patterns that prevent true connection. MaryAnn’s story about reconnecting with her neighbors serves as a reminder of the power of intentional actions to foster intimacy and reduce isolation. Through examples and references, they offer tools to identify, unlearn, and reshape habits that hinder connection, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness, purpose, and supportive accountability.
Outline and Resources:
1. Understanding Patterns and the Need for Change   - Resource: Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself by Dr. Joe Dispenza — Dr. Dispenza’s work on how to consciously rewire automatic behaviors through intentional change.
2. Steps for Effective Change: Identify, Act, Evaluate     - Resource: The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg — The concept of keystone habits that catalyze broader changes in life.
3. Tools for Change and Resilience Building     - Habit Stacking: Introducing small, progressive changes that build into lasting habits.   - Window of Tolerance by Dr. Dan Siegel — Expanding resilience by gradually increasing what one can comfortably handle.   - Resource: Dr. Carol Dweck’s Mindset — Encourages adopting a growth mindset to embrace change and overcome limiting beliefs.
4. Conflict Patterns in Relationships     - Resource: Hold Me Tight by Dr. Sue Johnson — On recognizing and disrupting the “dance” of recurring conflict patterns in relationships.
5. Creating a Supportive Community and Accountability     - Flubbing (phone snubbing) — Discussed as an example of behaviors that limit presence and connection.   - Invitation to Identify One Desired Change — An exercise for listeners to set an actionable goal.
6. Introducing the "Change 2.0" Course   - Dr. Skinner’s upcoming course offering structured support for individuals, couples, and families to create lasting change.

Breaking the Silence: Addressing Abuse as a Barrier to Human Intimacy (Episode #37)

Breaking the Silence: Addressing Abuse as a Barrier to Human Intimacy
In this powerful episode of the Human Intimacy Podcast, Dr. Kevin Skinner and MaryAnn Michaelis tackle one of the most difficult topics in relationships—abuse in its various forms. They explore how abuse, whether emotional, verbal, physical, psychological, or financial, acts as a significant barrier to human intimacy. The conversation delves into why people may minimize or avoid labeling abusive behaviors and emphasizes the importance of recognizing these patterns for relationship healing. Both hosts offer practical insights, real-life examples, and resources for individuals who may be experiencing abuse or engaging in harmful behaviors. The episode also touches on the psychological impact of abuse, such as gaslighting, and the challenges of breaking free from abusive cycles.
Key Points:
1. Understanding Abuse in Relationships:   - Abuse, in any form, erodes the foundation of intimacy in relationships.   - Many individuals struggle to recognize or label abusive behaviors due to shame, fear of change, or minimizing their partner’s actions.   - Abuse can be verbal, emotional, physical, financial, sexual, spiritual, or psychological, each contributing to significant harm in different ways.
2. The Cycle of Abuse:
   - Dr. Skinner describes the cycle of abuse, where abusers often promise change after an incident, leading to a temporary honeymoon period before the cycle repeats.   - Individuals in abusive relationships often hope for the abuser's love or change, making it hard to leave.
3. The Role of Gaslighting:
   - Psychological abuse, particularly gaslighting, is highlighted as one of the most insidious forms of manipulation.   - Gaslighting leads individuals to doubt their perceptions of reality, increasing trauma and emotional distress.   - The episode discusses how gaslighting is linked to elevated PTSD symptoms in betrayed partners.
4. Red Flags in Relationships:
   - Common signs of abuse include control, manipulation, isolation, and secrecy.    - "Sequestering," or preventing a partner from interacting with others, is a deep form of manipulation that limits support and reality checks.
5. Hope and Healing:   - Dr. Skinner and MaryAnn emphasize that change is possible through acknowledgment and treatment. Both victims and abusers can benefit from support systems and professional intervention.   - Resources such as support groups, therapy, and hotlines are crucial for those in abusive situations.
Resources Discussed:
1. National Domestic Violence Hotline:     - 1-800-799-SAFE (7233)     - Provides support for individuals experiencing domestic violence.
2. Books:   - Facing Codependency by Pia Melody: Discusses codependency and abuse in relationships.   - The Betrayal Bond by Patrick Carnes: Focuses on trauma bonds in abusive relationships.   - The Betrayal Bind by Michelle Mays: Explores betrayal trauma and its connection to gaslighting and emotional abuse.
3. Therapeutic Approaches:   - Addressing the "Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse" in relationships—criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling (based on John Gottman’s work).   - Developing strategies to manage anger and prevent abusive

When We Freeze: Understanding and Healing from Traumatic Shutdowns (Episode #36)

When We Freeze: Understanding and Healing from Traumatic Shutdowns
In this episode, MaryAnn Michaelis and Dr. Kevin Skinner discuss the profound impact of freezing as a response to trauma. They explore how life events, particularly those involving emotional or physical trauma, can leave individuals stuck, carrying the weight of unresolved experiences for decades. This discussion highlights how freezing, more than fight or flight, can be especially traumatizing, as it leaves the individual feeling helpless or numb. Dr. Skinner and MaryAnn delve into the psychological and somatic aspects of freezing, emphasizing the importance of creating a safe environment for healing and the steps necessary to get unstuck.
Key Concepts Discussed:1. The Freeze Response – A natural reaction to overwhelming events that can leave people stuck emotionally and physically.2. Somatic Experience – How trauma manifests in the body, drawing on the works of Peter Levine and Pat Ogden.3. Traumatic Reenactment – The concept that individuals may unconsciously seek to resolve past trauma by repeating harmful patterns.4. Neuroplasticity and Action – Insights from neuroscience that emphasize taking action as a way to create new neural pathways and move forward from trauma.5. Polyvagal Theory – Understanding the autonomic nervous system's role in traumatic responses, particularly the dorsal vagal shutdown, and its impact on emotional regulation.6. Hope and Healing – The concept that learned helplessness can be unlearned, fostering hope and creating new possibilities for recovery.
Resources Discussed:
1. Books:     - In an Unspoken Voice by Dr. Peter Levine     - The Body Keeps the Score by Dr. Bessel van der Kolk     - Hope Circuit by Dr. Martin Seligman     - Polyvagal Theory in Therapy by Deb Dana
2. Therapeutic Techniques:     - EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing)     - ART (Accelerated Resolution Therapy)     - Somatic experience exercises to release trauma stored in the body.
3. Tools for Self-Regulation:     - Creating a list of actions to take when feeling stuck (e.g., listening to music, breathing exercises, journaling).     - Co-regulation by reaching out to trusted individuals for support during moments of freeze.
Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own experiences with freezing, consider professional support, and take small steps toward action and healing.